David Doler
(K=467) - Comment Date 4/23/2003
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Years ago when I first started teaching college, my students compained to the department head that I was insensitive and harsh. I couldn't understand their complaints - wasn't it my job to give them my honest input ?
He said simply - "everyone wants to be loved". And left it at that.
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Eric Mendoza
(K=1204) - Comment Date 4/23/2003
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I attended a beginner's class last summer and showed
slides to our teacher, a photojournalist from the local
paper. I showed him my best slides in the last few years,
and the first thing he said was: This work is definitely
not a beginner! He then made small suggestions on how
some of the slides would look better. I learn a lot from
it. I actually want for him to tear my work apart but he
did not. I guess everyone can benefit from constructive
criticism. I can learn more and I like experts to tell me
how. I can take it. Those who can't are immature!
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神 風
(K=10665) - Comment Date 4/23/2003
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My entire Portfolio is at your disposal Mr. Lynch, ... so fire away because I am confident but also 'Modest & Talented' I think ... LOL sorta!
Just remember one thing though: "Even if you are NOT interested in my or one's work ... should the degree of expertise involved, (however high or low it may be), in compiling all my images be negated simply because you are NOT interested"?
That is the question my friend and after you critique all of them that you may choose to appraise by commentary and numerical scores which I greatly seek ... then you can *sigh* again ... LOL!
On your mark, get set, go, and Best of Regards!
P.S. There is nothing wrong with 'Venting' as long as you perform it in a constructive way ... as you have explained yourself here and I do indeed agree!
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Brendan Bhagan
(K=531) - Comment Date 4/23/2003
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Go on rip me apart, I can take it. I see it as a way to learn, letting people rip my stuff apart helps, it's advise.
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神 風
(K=10665) - Comment Date 4/23/2003
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Brendan ... do I have your permission to do so constructively of course? ... because I don't know if Mr. Lynch is going to 'Walk The Talk'!
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Brendan Bhagan
(K=531) - Comment Date 4/23/2003
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GO for it, let me have it, just don't rate me low tho lol.
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heather martino
(K=3648) - Comment Date 4/24/2003
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Feel free to pick nits in mine (will probably end up shredding rather than nitpicking - I dont mind). Though they're not your favourite type of photo, & nobody would call them 'art', I still think you could help me out lots! (I've been reading back through your comments)
H:)
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João Figueiredo
(K=7674) - Comment Date 4/24/2003
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I don't now about others, by i'm here, posting some of my images, because i wanna ear others opinions, and see others work. I wanna learn!
About "!!!!", and more, i use the cause they're a easy way to express some feelings (expecialy when i don't don't feel free with english). Sometimes, there's not much thing to say...
I don?t have the pretention to be artist, so there's many things i can't critique cause i don't have the "tools" for it. I'm reading a good book, i hope i can improve with it, it's called "La Chambre Claire(note sur la photographie)" from Roland Barthes.
I don't remember your work, so i have to see you gallery first, but i promise i'll do that. If you wanna see my work feel free to say what's in your mind about, and you can visit my web site (is a small gallery, still in construction)...
Don't be so frustated, take a deep breathe and put a smile on your face, there's a sunny day outside, there are so many nice images that you can see, even here! : )
Regards,
João
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Russ Pollanen
(K=275) - Comment Date 4/27/2003
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Aurore Lynch ,
Feel free to state your opinion on mine anytime. I do not take any critism personally. Photography is subjective at times though and personal to many. I try very hard not to take it that way. I need to remember to take myself away from the work and what was involved in getting the image and look at it objectively from others points of view. See if they have good points and how I can improve my work from their suggestions. If the suggestions don't seem valid to me I move on to the next opinion:) Don't worry about it! If many people seem to come up with some of the same points maybe it has some validity though.
When I do give my opinion, I try to look at an image and see what I like about it or don't like about it and explain both. I look at several areas though to try and make it hopefully fair and useful. I do understand as stated above that photography can be subjective. I try and evaluate each image. Is it I do or don't like a picture because of taste, technical, compsition, etc.? Why do I like it? Why I don't like it? What I may have tried different. What may have worked(and maybe it wouldn't).
There are rules to help improve photography and there are rules to be broken when it works too. I like to hear the good things about my images and I like to hear the bad things also though!!! That is the way I benefit from a forum such as this. If all I hear is good then I really will not want to improve or even have other peoples insights to improve. So come on over and rip me apart anytime:) Thanks...
I think you can only hope your advise or opinion is used or useful in a critique one on one or in a group. There are many of us that have no problem with you ripping us apart and in someones else eye the image you said needed work maybe great. So I accept that to!
I'm glad you posted this because I like to give my opinion. It's nice to know the people that will accept this type of critique and opinions and not be insulted or hurt. So I will have to stop over and look at yours. I may learn some more in the process myself:)
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Evan Parker
(K=216) - Comment Date 4/27/2003
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Personally, I want to be the best photographer that I can possibly be. Being the best you can possibly be in any pursuit in life is the highest standard you can hold yourself to. I would feel insulted if people did not give me their honest opinions on my work.... If I wanted solely praise, I could show my pictures to my mother or other people not very knowledgeable in the area of the photographic arts!
I think the best thing that can happen to a piece of art is for it to be under heavy contention. If your photo has gotten dozens of comments, many negative, but also has hundreds of views, remember: Your art has gotten a lot of exposure, and is powerful enough to elicit a response from the viewer! That, to me, is an accomplishment.
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jeff lynch
(K=4770) - Comment Date 4/27/2003
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Ms. L.....You are more than welcome to peruse my stuff. I do appreciate your comments and input.
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Ray Soemarsono
(K=85) - Comment Date 4/27/2003
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I wonder about that myself. What's the point having a "holier than thou" attitude? Does anybody really think that their work is the highest form of perfection and therefore cannot be improved? It's their loss...
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Todd Broadbent
(K=2204) - Comment Date 4/28/2003
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I paid enormous amounts of money to go to art school where all we did is make art and criticize everyone elses. First of all, art is very subjective, personal, and open to private interpretations and taste. So any criticism given has to be categorized into 1) technical criticism 2) personal taste. If I can improve technically, I want to know how. If you just don't like my work then that's your perogative and I have no reason to take it personally.
As far as the comment "everyone wants to be loved," I say that helping me improve my work is a good thing. Secondly, for those who are not as "tough-skinned" as some of us, I was given good advise on criticism. First, tell them a good point about the work. Then fire away and leave on another good note. Kinda like covering broccoli with cheese - makes it much more palatable (although I like broccoli just the way it comes).
With that all said - take a shot at whatever images I submit...with or without cheese.
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Aurore Lynch
(K=1687) - Comment Date 4/28/2003
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Quite a response! I suppose I feel a little silly now for venting... like a child stomping it's feet. My main frustration comes when I spend an hour writing a critique only to come back the next day to find people who have made a point of saying they do not agree with me. Well, that's fine, isn't it? But do they state why they don't agree with me? Nah, just the same old '!!!!'. And so I find their disagreement pointless and entirely without value. And Joao, I understand where short comments can be helpful for those without a mastery of the english language, but a lot of people leaving short comments speak english quite fluently. Also don't forget that usefilm does a very nice job of putting a 'translate' function below critiques written in other languages, so feel free to write in your own language when you feel compelled to say a lot. Short comments can be useful, I think, but one should make an effort to really view a work closely and think hard about it, finding it's meaning (to the particular viewer, any how) and any alterations that might strengthen that meaning. Leave '!!!!' occasionally, sure, but try to leave a short paragraph when your thoughts on a piece permit. I wish there were some way to coax people into doing such. Occasionally an artist will respond positively to a critique I leave, and there's no better feeling in the world. When my page of personal interpretation and technical nitpicking sits among so many 'great!'s and 'wow!'s and '!!!!'s it's easy to imagine that my critique will be shrugged off. People seem to find their favorite artists and come back time and time again to say 'wow' but I fail to see how they're doing the artist a favor that way. Surely you don't think every piece submitted by your favorite artist is flawless? And if you do, what does that say about your expectations? What value is your opinion after so many 'wow!'s? Already I can see them rolling their eyes at me.
Todd, tell me, what was art school like? I want to go, but I fear that the prevailing attitude will be pretentiousness. Is that so? Do you think the average art student is humble or arrogant? Just out of curiousity...
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Aurore Lynch
(K=1687) - Comment Date 4/28/2003
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Oh, and to Evan; I agree with you 100%! I have submitted a few peices on another site that, among a sea of positive praise, recieve the odd negative comment from an offended viewer. My husband said once; if everyone likes it, there's something you're doing wrong. I think he has a very good point. Art is about stirring up emotions, bad and good. Sometimes it's about forcing the world to see things differently, and they may not like that, but if you're getting them to think, whether they hate your artwork or not, then you're absolutely on the right track...
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Todd Broadbent
(K=2204) - Comment Date 4/28/2003
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Aurore - Art school was the best time of my life and afforded me a trip to France that I may have never taken otherwise. I also learned a ton and my art improved a lot (you should've seen it before!) As far as attitude, I suppose it depends. It is definitely tamed by continuous critiques in class. I didn't come across it that much, but it definitely exists. I just stayed with the humble ones and acted pretentious around the others to make them feel better - meanwhile laughing on the inside. I think its more of a game you learn once you get into the professional art world. All in all, school was worth every penny. For what it is worth, I went to Temple University - Tyler School of Art. The art school had it's own campus right outside Philadelphia in a donated estate. So it was like a little artist community - very nice. They were talking about moving it to the Main campus which of course was very gauche with the art students and teachers. I'm not sure if they ever did or not. Feel free to email me at toddbroadbent@loafintree.com
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Todd Broadbent
(K=2204) - Comment Date 4/28/2003
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That's actually todd@loafintree.com
sorry...got carried away.
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Michael Miner
(K=58) - Comment Date 4/30/2003
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Actually what bugs me is "Nice Shot", "Wonderful Photo".
I know that or I wouldn't have posted it!
If you love the shot tell me why, if you have a small thing, tell me that too. It's the little flaws that add up to a ruined photo. I take what I agree with and discard that which I don't. I don't have any art training (but I'm a hell of a welder) so any help is appreciated.
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Nate Barnes
(K=216) - Comment Date 5/12/2003
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I keep thinking on the two photo teachers that I have had that I really liked.
In high school I was just beginning and the teacher I had would say good things about most pictures. This really motivated me to take more and more pictures and to be really interested in learning more. As the class moved on she was slightly more critical but never very.
I later had a college professor who would literally point the slide projector with your image at the ceiling and ask the class if that helped at all or was it still a bad photograph. He would then point it at the wall sideways to see if that helped (it ususally did not). He was much more critical although his feedback (except for the ceiling projections) was always useful.
One set of feedback helped me to fall in love with photography and the other helped me to become a better one but both were important.
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William Ash
(K=443) - Comment Date 5/13/2003
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Are you a student? Criticism is an important part of the process. But they are not criticising you, just the image. Feel grateful that they care enough to take the time to help you. But the final judgement is always yours.
Have you mastered your art? Ignore it. It's not important.
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George Marks
(K=15437) - Comment Date 5/15/2003
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I'm not an artist, I'm an engineer. In my experience, the more one leans towards art, the more sensitive one becomes. And these type of sensitive people have fragile egos that see criticism as aggression. I design and build stuff for shipboard and marine applications. They may not (and some really are not) pretty. But they work and are reliable and rugged. My photography is two fold. What I do in my profession (which will never be seen publicly), and what I encounter in my daily life. It seems as though I have been cursed by never having enough time to devote to making an image with all the elements in harmony. Oh well.
For me, they mark a point in time and space I can share with close friends and family. Usefilm is a part of my family.
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Marc Gougenheim
(K=5398) - Comment Date 5/24/2003
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Aurore,
First, let me say that I truly wish I had your PR skills. I actually posted number of forum threads - stating exactly the same as you are stating here - on 3 different sites, including this one. The difference was that I lacked your way to phrase things.
If you click on my name, you won't find any photo uploaded. I used to have a few, but decided to pack my bags the day I got insulting posts as a reply for a polite criticism I posted on an image. Retaliations, insults, egomaniac behaviors, that's unfortunately on every site. I even had members of this community chasing from one site to another and such... People are people, I'm affraid. The result is that I have so far left 3 sites where I used to try to have a constructive attitude. On these 3 sites combined, I've most certainly left more than a million words of comments, most of them very detailed. I probably critiqued about 15000 images all together. Now here comes perhaps a surprise: I've been a professional photographer for 15 years, and I've critiqued all these images to learn as much as to help. So, finally, I'm just not sure whether I will ever repost images on this site or not, but what I know is that if I were to do so, I would delete each image systematically a week after posting it. Why ? To avoid insulting feedback, retaliations and all the nasty stuff. It's just not worth going through all this. Once one's picture has been critiqued, you rarely get anything interesting after a week anyway, so why keep up a complete portfolio here ? The points...? They don't pay my rent...:-)
But hey, since I was looking for a few pictures to critique today, and since I see many nice folks in this thread, let me see whether I can drop a few terribly harsh comments on your works... (Just joking). Best regards, and keep the head up.
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Barry Hall
(K=378) - Comment Date 5/25/2003
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George, from my experience I don't think artists are necessarily more sensitive and ego-driven than lawyers... or corporate executives... or politicians-- to name only a few examples.
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Lynda Kuit
(K=707) - Comment Date 3/8/2004
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Speaking as a newbie to SLR, I'd like to have as much feedback as possible. That's the way we learn - right! If I posted a shot and someone said it was bad - tell me, but also tell me where to fix it, so I can learn from my mistakes. Similar if it is a good shot - tell me so I know I'm on the right track. Technical and artistic feedback are equally important in my eyes.
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Roger Williams
(K=86139) - Comment Date 3/9/2004
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One thing you have to watch is that there is no "tone of voice" in a comment posted publicly under an image. If the person reading it thinks the comment is being made from a position of superiority ("look at all the things I can see wrong with your picture") then they're going to resent the criticism. So it's maybe a good rule to say all that's GOOD about the picture first. If I don't like the picture at all, I won't comment or rate. But if I see a picture I really like, I'll try to say why, and if I see something that might have worked better, I'll say that, too. I haven't had any flames SO FAR, nor hostile comments. [grin]
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Anindya Maity
(K=7880) - Comment Date 3/9/2004
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Aurore,I for one don't mind at all any comment ,harsh/nitpicking,you may find time to leave for my pix.I sometimes do leave 'Nice pic' type of comments ,mainly because there is nothing more to add after several others have commented and also I don't think myself competent enough to seriously critique some pix.I don't leave negative critiques for the same rason;if a photograph doesn't appeal to me,I quietly move on.But those of you u who do it seriously,I really thank you for the trouble u take.In fact hope for serious criticism of my work is why I keep posting my old pictures,they help me understand where I stand as a photographer.Anyway,judging by the tenor of the replies I don't think you need be frustrated.
Marc,you're still around !I confess that I terribly miss your critiques.They helped me a lot understanding how a photograph should be judged.
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Andy Ly
(K=716) - Comment Date 4/1/2004
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The problem with critiquing is, most people will only tell you what they like about the composition, and minor ways to fix an image.
This is so common because simply put, it is the easiest thing to do when critiquing.
It is quite surprising how many people have no idea what a perfectly exposed negative looks look, or when an image is underdeveloped as opposed to underexposed, or vice versa.
The comments by which people give only reflects their own photographic abilities. If you get a good critique from an individual who gives you excellent technical advice and extreme considerations, then you can anticipate his portfolio to be grand.
In most cases, I've found that people who are looking for a true critique usually comes back to someone they already trust for honest and helpful opinion.
Then there are people who don't take criticism well, because it is an attack on their own character and the artist in themself. Only those who will let go of such absurd pride will be able to progress. There will always be more opportunities to shoot a better picture.
Andy
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Bob Jarman
(K=3145) - Comment Date 4/2/2004
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Neil D.
(K=192) - Comment Date 4/2/2004
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People do tend to say only positive (or what they themselves think of as polite) comments or suggestions when they do take the time to comment. I am guilty of this myself. I think the reason is that so many people are offended by off-hand comments, and they try not to bring more to themselves by annoying others. I actually like to get 'real' suggestions, but only if they are constructive!! If someone simply says "try again" or "why do you bother?" or some other sarcastic remark, then this doesn't help - these are the kind of comments I don't like, but if I complain about them, I get accused of being just another arrogant artist (or worse!). Please, come and comment on my work! I don't mind constructive truth :-) I don't promise to agree with you, but I won't be offended with constructive advice!
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Mark Layne
(K=253) - Comment Date 4/14/2004
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I would like to weigh in with the crowd and say please critique my photos. I welcome good constructive criticism. Even if it does sting. I would rather learn to be better than be placated with false praise just to be expected to return the same false praise on someone else?s photos.
I like all comments and it is an ego booster to get the "great job" but when that is all you get it is kind of lacking in the reason I am putting out photos.
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Jeff Fiore
(K=11277) - Comment Date 4/14/2004
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Aurore,
I might as well pipe in. Some people are immature when it comes to criticism - they really can't take it. They just want to told how great their photos are.
What I do find and people have to realize is that no one wastes their time commenting on a really bad photo. Most critiscms are usually aimed at good photos that can be improved even more.
I value criticism very highly. For one thing, I am my own worst critic - I know my photos are not that good. If I wanted good comments and ratings, I could just post my older landscapes, sunsets and nature photos. That is not my purpose for posting here. My direction now is learning digital format, lighting and portraiture with a little infrared thrown in.
Show 5 critics a photograph and you'll probably get 5 different responses. As stated earlier in this thread, art is very subjective. Remember, if you criticize my work doesn't mean I have to accept it (I usually do accept it). However, even if I don't agree with a particular critique, it does make me look at the image and try to see what they saw and - you know - sometimes they have a point.
Feel free to criticize any and all of my photos - nit pick, tear it apart and tell me how to improve it - thats what I'm here for.
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Mark Beltran
(K=32612) - Comment Date 4/23/2004
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I guess some people have to be reminded what a critique is and what it entails. I don't always critique, as it's my prerogative unless he or she specifically requests a critique.
And there are those who can't take it, even though they requested a critique.
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Mike George
(K=3429) - Comment Date 4/27/2004
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I agree with just about all of you. Constructive evaluation, good & bad, helps one to improve their work. As for my stuff, I doubt it is going to gather much interest, as I am an amature and realize it. I had someone evaluate one of my shots here and he was rather blunt about what he did not like. He was actually right. I never got the chance to thank him, a day after I saw his comments they were gone. Perhaps he thought the comments were a bit blunt. As for me, I live by what mom taught, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything. If I truely like your work I will say so and it is not just dressing, I mean it. If I think something could be done to the image, I will suggest it. I rarely will say anything about a photo that just does nothing for me. Unfortunately, there are too many nice photos to comment on each of them. Those that I comment on, to me, are above average and work that I enjoyed.
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Richard Dakin
(K=12915) - Comment Date 8/7/2004
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Remember too that some are not immature, but insecure when it comes to criticism. There are many people on this site that are new to serious photography. At first these people need + suggestions for improvement, moving to more detailed criticism later. They may not be experienced photographers, but photography is a very personal thing and it is easy to mistake the motive of some critiques. I think Roger Williams nailed it in his comment.
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Aurore Lynch
(K=1687) - Comment Date 8/7/2004
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It's amazing that this thread is still going after 18 months. I can't reply to everything (I wasn't around for 13 of those months) but to Richard - Here I was speaking not of beginners but of people who have long been artists, photography or otherwise. I would never come down too hard on a beginner (unless they presented themselves as otherwise), and I would likely never have any reason to say, 'hey, this is allright, but isn't it a little cliched? You are talented, I know you can do better!' This is the sort of stuff I want to say all the time. I want to scream 'Hey! Get over yourself and start making some real art already! And quit placing so much importance on what your little usefilm followers have to say!!' But, alas...
And it's those people that don't want to hear it. Or, really, it's their followers.
My thing is, there can only be so much great art in the world. The more works you herald as masterpeices, the less value each masterpiece has, just like a diamond. Art is rare and valuable (and beautiful, usually) and should be treated that way. Running around and proclaiming everyone a great artist just cheapens the whole art experience. It irritates me that more people don't take this into consideration. Or, one would assume so, looking through their comments. But then, maybe they're just full of sh*t and they know it too. Perhaps it's just their way of fitting into the cliche.
Art is often a complicated world full of fake people. It's just a shame.
And, once again... *sigh*
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Richard Dakin
(K=12915) - Comment Date 8/8/2004
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Thanks for replying so quickly Aurore. The whole criticism thing is kind of like walking a tightrope, one I have walked through 28 years of teaching English. If we assume that the purpose of criticism is to improve our photography, then we need to approach our criticism in a way that both reinforces the good points of a pic, but also offers suggestions for improvement. I try to use a ratio of 2 good points, 1 area to improve. In this way both can benefit from the experience. I learn as much from my criticisms of others work as I do through criticism of my work.
Unfortunately many people on this web site have another agenda. They are not interested in the growth of other artists, only putting them in their place. As far as I am concerned each person is open to their own opinion of what is art, and if I do not like or understand someone else's work I simply do not comment. I wasn't able to do this as a teacher, but we can here. As for the people who give glowing comments to what appears to be inferior work .... who cares! Many of these people may have hidden agendas too, but it just doesn't matter to me. Maybe I have just developed too much of an attitude to deal with artists or should I say artistes.I don't get along at all with the local arts community either, but I can't see wasting my energy worrying about comments others have made about my work, and even less about comments made regarding my criticisms. I put a lot of thought into what I say, but who knows if I even have a clue. Saying that my work sells means nothing, it is like saying that ____________ (choose any popular singer here) has talent because they sell millions of records. We both know that many people with real talent remain undiscovered, while lesser artists sell $millions and become guests on talk shows. There is NO right answer to the question of what is ART. That is in fact the best thing about it, because it also means that there really is no wrong answer either.
Thanks for your reply to my comment Aurore, trading thoughts with you has been interesting to say the least. It has made me think, and that too is a good thing. Remember Kurt Vonnegut (American fiction writer) once said "You are what you pretend to be, so you better be careful what you pretend to be."
...............sincerely Rick.
P.S. If you wish to comment further you can reach me at richard.dakin@sympatico.ca
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Mrs. Robert Cason
(K=33) - Comment Date 8/23/2004
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i agree with you, Aurore, there is always room for improvemnt.
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Tegwin Deacon
(K=224) - Comment Date 9/11/2004
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go ahead, no one ever crits me... well not properly, The only crit i have ever rolled my eye's at is "is this fashion? What am i looking at"
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Richard Dakin
(K=12915) - Comment Date 9/11/2004
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I think that is the real problem. What is a "proper" criticism? What elements should be included? Is it the same as judging work in shows? I have been told that you can take courses in the proper way to evaluate photography. Is that what we need to do?
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Tegwin Deacon
(K=224) - Comment Date 9/11/2004
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it all depends, on the point of view... myself i consider a crit to be based on technical aspects, not on weather one can see the sequins on the dress. If it were a crit from a stylist then sure, but as photographers i feel that crits should be of a technical basis.
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Kevin H
(K=22502) - Comment Date 9/11/2004
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I also agree with you, I've posted comments and received e-mails telling me that i'm wrong. A good equation is to put something good about the picture, then something bad and finish it off with something nice again.
Also, if you want you can criticises my portfolio, as I love it when people tell me what's wrong with my pictures.
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Richard Dakin
(K=12915) - Comment Date 9/11/2004
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I THINK I agree????? Criticism of technical flaws, given with the appropriate way to improve is something we all should be able to live with. Even if there is nothing "wrong" with the shot, an alternative point of view gives us something think about. There may be more than one way to accomplish a certain goal.
I think the artistic side is much more difficult to assess.
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Chuck Freeman
(K=13616) - Comment Date 9/11/2004
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I love criticism as long as it is constructive. What I do not like is (recently) woman referred to my subject as a slut. This was not on USEFILM.
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Kelli Evans
(K=356) - Comment Date 9/12/2004
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I'd like to jump in with your question to Todd about art school. It's fabulous! There are plenty of pretentious people- once I even based a project on it- but there are pretentious people everywhere. Who cares. The intillectual stimulation, discussions, and critques have been sorely missed (I graduated in 1998), and that is precisely what I've hoped to find again by joining usefilm. So far so good!
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Kelli Evans
(K=356) - Comment Date 9/12/2004
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Tegwin,
I just checked out your images, driven by the statement "no one ever crits me properly", ready to give it a try, but that's not so easily done due to the high calibur of your work. I'll have to give it some long thought. Some people may be too intimidated by your skill to really critique it properly.
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Tegwin Deacon
(K=224) - Comment Date 9/13/2004
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you have to be joking!!!
Here: Clocked... I used only TL lighting, so the "eye" light is soft, giving the impression that the image is out of focus. Slap on wrist, next time mix a lil flash in, to solidify the eye light.
Maniquine: ambient light is too warm, the decor is not properly exposed, should have bounced some flash into left side of frame, to compensate for the lack of light.
Mediator: need a lil more pick up in the floating clothing, hot spot above head is too hot, Should have killed make-up artist, instead of thinking " she is new... give her a break
I can go on and on...
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Tegwin Deacon
(K=224) - Comment Date 9/13/2004
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sorry, that was rude... thanx for the flattery
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D W
(K=2560) - Comment Date 9/15/2004
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I take critism on my work personally but not negatively. It is a tool that helps us all improve.
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José Azevedo
(K=9845) - Comment Date 10/13/2004
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There are times when you have to be polite and there are times when it's better to be sincere.
When I post an image here I expect people to be sincere at it and expose they feelings and opinions about it. the thing I hate most is a "Great!" or "Nice!" comment. It doesn't feed me at all. Why did he liked, or not, the image? I'll never know.
My reason for joining this site is to improve my photography. If I'm not told what's fine or wrong, how'll this be achieved?
This political correctness thing created on the last decade is destroying what's left of the individuals - OPINION. And, also, serving to turn the mass more and more into... a mass which, in portuguese, is the same word for pasta...
Also, as a sign of times, I find impressive how many people use the computer to start relations by hiding themselves. Wouldn't it be much easier or "normal" to go to a club and make friends with real people instead of personas created for a web chat?
The answer is FEAR. Of life, of exposing theirselves, of being rejected (one or his ideas). That's why, more and more, there's so much flattering around us. And, with it, comes hypocrisy, falseness and other healthy feelings...
So, these people have a tendency to take it personal. If you don't like their work, you don't like them. And they can't live with that. They return to you with guns, tanks and atomic bombs inside their pockets...
This is a site about photography exchange but, I don't know why, some people see it as a relationship/ personal site.
Certainly this isn't the "future" I've imagined for humankind :-)
But there's hope.
Regards to all,
Jose Azevedo
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Ray Heath
(K=4559) - Comment Date 10/14/2004
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beautifully put Jose, I fully concur
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Neal Nye
(K=15827) - Comment Date 10/18/2004
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Am I the only person here who does not post pictures because he wants to improve and learn? Many seem to think that's the whole point here. It's not that I don't want to improve, but I've often wondered why people think their photography is going to get better after reading the opinions of some anonymous strangers.
What does it mean to get "better" anyway? Does it mean taking pictures that conform to the tips in Kodak books about how to take good pictures? I don't think so. My photography improves as it becomes increasingly able to effectively express what I want to express. How can someone else advise me on that when they don't know what I want to express?
Others may suggest my picture should lighter or sharper or the corners should be darker or any one of a hundred things. Don't they think I thought of that? When I post a picture it's just the way I want it. It could be different in an infinity of ways and those would make it a different picture, but I chose this one. I chose it because I thought it made my point most effectively.
I post pictures because I want to share my vision with others. I want to look at yours because I want to see what you saw and how you saw it. To me the ideal comment would be "I looked at this and I enjoyed it." "Great shot" and "Wow" come close to saying the same thing. Those are good comments. To tell me my sky is too light or too dark is like telling me you think my house should be painted white instead of gray. Go paint your own house.
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Neal Nye
(K=15827) - Comment Date 10/18/2004
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When you consider the number of images that exist in the world, don't you wonder why anyone would make more? We all know what sunsets, flowers, ripped abs and lovely women look like. Why, in their wildest imaginings, do people think it would be a good idea to portray these things again? The only reason I can think of is to make a personal statement. We all see things in subtly different ways and it's fun to share those.
So if you're going to make a personal statement why hide behind a mask of anonymity using a cutesy nickname and leaving the bio blank? We don't need to share a lot of personal information, but if we had some idea of who the photographers were we could better understand what they might be trying to do. It's been said that the photo should stand for itself. But then it's in there with the billions of others and there's no real reason for it to exist.
I think these presentations should be as personal as possible. Use your real name and let us know who you are. When you put up a picture, you're not really revealing, say, the Grand Canyon. There's no point in that: it's been done. You're revealing yourself and that's what's interesting.
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José Azevedo
(K=9845) - Comment Date 10/18/2004
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Hi Neal,
I believe the point of this site is to share. One can share images, others ideas, opinions, concepts or more technical aspects. It doesn't matter. As I see it, all this sharing helps improve both relations and the result of our images.
You stated "My photography improves as it becomes increasingly able to effectively express what I want to express". The only way to know if your photography is effectively expressing what you want it to express is through feedback.
Communication needs a message, a sender and a receptor. Without a receptor you're not communicating. And knowing what the receptor thinks can tell if you're effectively expressing what you want to express - your vision of things.
It's a circle of improvement. By accepting feedback I don't believe you're losing your identity or your images will become less personal. You'll still be creating them the way you like but only with more understanding of how people interpret your vision. But it's up to you to create ways to express yourself.
I agree with you that people should not hide on anonymity. But... there's fear, etc., etc. I also find very helpful to the comprehension of certain images and styles when the write a little about the image and their intentions with it. Many place poems or other writing that make the experience very interesting.
Nice to meet you!
Jose Azevedo
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BILL MAHLER
(K=5882) - Comment Date 10/21/2004
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Hi Neal.
I agree with you "zackly"... All my post are well thought out and am showing you what I wanted to show you..Just the way you see it. Some are posted for fun.. but all the others are deadly serious .. with the purpose of teaching by example. I tutor several usefilm members as well. When I see a member going off in the wrong direction "technically" ..I will leave a comment with advice on bringing them back on line.
What I really disapprove of is the practice of giving praise and encouragement to a member who has posted a fuzzy..soft..out of focus Image. All this does is promote false Ideas and thoughts .. that they are doing great in their pursuit of fine photography. But this is done by all their friends and countrymen .. who inturn are "stroked" buy their friends and fellow countrymen. "blood is thicker then thuth".
The end result is .. the member will never improve.
Also .. it seems that some of the awards are not given by means of the photograph's merit.. but by members "lobbying" for the winner. There are members here who post stunning photos and are very talented .. absolutely excellent images... but are never recognised. Go figure. Then .. there are those that always say"if you had stepped to the left a "tad" .. it would have improved the Image". No, it wouldn't .. thats what the photographer wanted to show. I could go on and on .. but yes Neal.... you are so right. If some of you would read the end of my bio.. you will understand the word "brutal" You will learn much from the habit.
~~~~~~~~~~ Regards ..... Bill Mahler
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Karen Ferranti
(K=2959) - Comment Date 10/26/2004
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I am new to photography. I bought a digital camera in the beginning of September 2004. Digital is great because you have the option of taking 100 shots and if they all suck you can hit the delete button. I started to take some pretty good pictures and some I think are excellent. I would wonder if the photos are really good or just average ametuer shots. I have so much to learn. I am still using the auto setting on the camera. Apeture and shutter speed is way beyond me at this point. I would love to hear critizism good or bad about my photos. I love to take pictures and want to improve all I can. If anyone wants to rip a picture apart well that is fine with me. I would hope I would learn something from it. Sure it is not to pleasant to have someone tell me that a picture I thought was great could have been better if I did this or that but at least the next time I will think about the comments and maybe take a better shot. As far as leaving better comments than Great Shot!!! I do not know enough about photography at this point to really give more than just a Wow! I love this.
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Tomas Koran
(K=362) - Comment Date 10/27/2004
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IMO, the world is full of arrogance. Everybody meets it quite regulary. While taking so many negative feelings, balance should be reached. Some people escape from this world to e.g. photography. They love their pictures, their friends admire their pics so they say: hey, this picture must be admired worldwide, netwide. And suddenly here, you come to say: The light is too bright; Colours are not well balanced; The thing on the background;... This just must kick their face and make them angry. I think, these are just one part of community, that doesn?t want to make it better. So anyone?s criticism misses its target, no matter what good is on your mind:). The other part are the arrogant people met by the first part:).
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Tomas Koran
(K=362) - Comment Date 10/27/2004
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Neal Nye: You have made me laugh. Very sincerely stated. The thing is, imho, if your point of view at your photography is compatible with some wider audience. I don?t know you. I?m fresh to photography and this site. But if you were a unique artist, you wouldn?t exhibit your work criticism of people here:). But I really like your comment. Because it is your sincere opinion and you seem to believe it. My respect.
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Tomas Koran
(K=362) - Comment Date 10/27/2004
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Neal Nye: You have made me laugh. Very sincerely stated. The thing is, imho, if your point of view at your photography is compatible with some wider audience. I don?t know you. I?m fresh to photography and this site. But if you were a unique artist, you wouldn?t exhibit your work criticism of people here:). But I really like your comment. Because it is your true opinion and you seem to believe it. My respect.
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BILL MAHLER
(K=5882) - Comment Date 10/27/2004
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So .. Thomas .what are you really saying??
~~~~~~~~~~~~ Regards ...... Bill
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Tomas Koran
(K=362) - Comment Date 10/27/2004
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I am trying to take a part:). To answer the question why. What is hard to understand in my comment?
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BILL MAHLER
(K=5882) - Comment Date 10/27/2004
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Zo-k Thomas ........ I get it .... Nice talking to you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~ Regards ....... Bill
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Tomas Koran
(K=362) - Comment Date 10/28/2004
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Bill, I am sorry for whatever I said wrong. I took a quick glance at your portfolio. If I understand well, you want to be happy and see no criticism to your photos. As a former professional magazine photographer. I mean, if Neal, You, anyone, clearly and truly state the purpose of being here, it can be simply understood and taken. Even if I am not of the same opinion, even if I am a "stupid" freshman:). Best regards.
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Tomas Koran
(K=362) - Comment Date 10/28/2004
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Bill, I havent read all comments. But yours, the longer one at the end, just now. And the one who doesnt understand is ME now :). ??? But I am still laughing. I imagine all those people and painting their houses after the reaction of Neal:). I am just crazy.
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BILL MAHLER
(K=5882) - Comment Date 10/28/2004
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Hi Thomas.....No offence taken. May I take a moment to clairfy a few things. I'm a straight forward guy and can't stand bullchit. My presence here on UF is to teach and inspire... not to flaunt my photography. I'm retired and direct my efforts and knowledge to helping those here that have a desire to learn and advance. I'm not here for points.. credits or critiques. I am also aware that because of my background.. there are some who like to take "pot-shots" at my post. But , they are the ones who have just read a book on photography.. and want to tell meto use "the rule of thirds".
As I mentioned in my last comment..It is not right to tell a member that their pix it "great".. wow.. "sharp" ... if .. Thomas.. it really isn't. Don't you agree?. And I believe that a Image should be selected for 'BIP".."SC".. "Editor's choice" .. etc. on it's merits .. not because it is without comments ... or they are new to the site.
Some here .. think that they were chosen by God .... to critique all post. So, you see Thomas.. I take all this serious.. and want members to learn and advance. Sorry if this was long winded. I am very secure in who I am and what I do... and I want you to be also. You are not a "stupid freshman" .. you are a mind seeking knowledge.
Warm Regards............... Bill :))
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Chuck Freeman
(K=13616) - Comment Date 10/28/2004
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Gentlemen... We all have our opinion. We all still learn... unfortunately my career is about over because of heart disease. Lets not be John Kerry and George Bush. Don't get heart attack like I did (lol)
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BILL MAHLER
(K=5882) - Comment Date 10/28/2004
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Hi Chuck..... You're right .... am sorry to hear of your health issues. We..Thomas and I .. were not clashing swords. I was explaining why I am here.. which is a fair question.. that many must wonder. I see that you have a 'few" years in this profession also. It's over for me as well Chuck.. 3 heart attacks..... triple by-pass and a Diabetic. Not much left to do .. but teach.
Nice to meet you Chuck..... Good health to you.
~~~~~~~~~~~ Warm Regards ....... Bill
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Tomas Koran
(K=362) - Comment Date 10/29/2004
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Bill, thank you for clearing it up. Imo these things are quite complicated for the reason written by Chuck. Some people like fighting and getting some others, potential dangerous competitors down. Good old jungle and predator rules:). Yes, I seek knowledge in every occassion, I appreciate your classifying:). I hate meeting bullshit as well but sometime I may state the same. Sorry to hear your medical issues.Chris, sorry to hear that too but we are in peace. At least I hope so. I may say strange things but they are hardly ever meant bad.
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Tomas Koran
(K=362) - Comment Date 10/29/2004
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I had written a really nice comment:) and nothing appeared:((((. t-mobile gprs sucks,fu..ks,..... This is the only way how heart attack can hit me. Otherwise I am easygoing. Bill & Chuck - I am sorry to see your medical issues @ hope photography helps you. I hope we are in peace with Bill and appreciate his effort.
Bill: btw. if I am in doubts about a certain photo of yours, am I welcome to express them? Just to see why I dont understand. E.G. the bridal photo. Why did you take it with Mamyia and got to digi after? I dont like it because I dont get it?
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Tomas Koran
(K=362) - Comment Date 10/30/2004
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I had written a really nice comment:) and nothing appeared:((((. t-mobile gprs su..ks,fu..ks,..... This is the only way how heart attack can hit me. Otherwise I am easygoing. Bill & Chuck - I am sorry to see your medical issues @ hope photography helps you and your effort is appreciated enough.
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BILL MAHLER
(K=5882) - Comment Date 10/31/2004
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Thank you Thomas......and it;s really great to meetyou. and Chuck.
~~~~~~~~~~ Good shooting...... Bill
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Lonnit Rysher
(K=67) - Comment Date 11/2/2004
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How refreshing to see lots of replies from people who are as eager as I to have thier work nitpicked! How else am I supposed to learn if nobody tells me where I made mistakes or overlooked things? Sure, compliments are encouraging, but the real meat of the learning comes from being told every last detail of what I did wrong or what would have been a better alternative.
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